New Car for Jenn

[Adam]

The Civic is....worn out? There are issues with the body and other non-engine stuff after doing the junkyard swap months back that are not feasibly fixed.

Here are the requirements/desirements in no particular order:
- <= ~$4k. The budget is debatable but I will ensure that a good example of whatever model is settled on is purchased. This is a bit against my normal intuition of buying the worst example of any given thing for the lease amount of money, but I'm sure I'll figure it out.
- New enough that she won't feel bad driving it in the winter (so that '82 Celica Supra is right out), but not so new that it's too new.
- Interesting (my requirement)
- Coupe or wagon or hatchback. No sedans. Unless they are worth buying.
- Preferably larger than her '97 Civic
- Preferably more powerful than her '97 Civic
- No TPMS (so older than '07)
- Good fuel economy
- Cloth seats
- Limited feature fanciness
- A/C
- No flip up headlights. Except when that is OK.
- Manual transmission. Or automatic. I'd prefer a manual (I currently don't have on in my fleet). She will learn.
- No German cars.
- She has to like how the car looks (no Hyundai Tiburan)
- Certain cars are right out for various reasons (like Civics newer than 2000)

I will update these as they are added.

[Adam]

The list so far (in no particular order):
96-00 Honda Civic
91-95 Acura Legend
98-03 Toyota Solara
04-08 Toyota Solara
93-96 Toyota Camry Coupe
98-02 Honda Accord Coupe
03-07 Honda Accord Coupe
03-08 Toyota Matrix
03-08 Pontiac Vibe (same as above)
95-99 Buick Riviera
96-99 Acura CL
00-03 Acura CL
96-98 Acura TL
99-04 Acura TL
98-04 Oldsmobile Alero
98-00 Mazda Millenia
89-97 Mazda Miata
98-05 Mazda Miata
92-00 Subaru Impreza
01-07 Subaru Impreza
97-01 Cadillac Catera
91-97 Mazda MX-6
91-96 Honda Prelude

[kevm14]

Legend!!! Yes! The coupes are fancy. And fair amount of power. Probably too fancy. The fact that I like it means it's not a good match.

[Adam]

There's actually a Legend down the street from us at a garage w/o plates. I've been trying to convince her to go look at it in person, even if it is ruined, since they are so rare.

[Adam]

I think the point of this thread in the near term should be to identify candidate models that I can run by her and gauge the response.

[kevm14]

Again, I like the Legend coupe. I think it will be too fancy for her. Don't mention this to her but I believe that generation has auto-closing doors like an S-class. I remember learning that like 15 years ago and I was amazed. I also recall the V6 having around 230 hp and available with a 6-speed manual. For the early/mid 90s that was pretty stout.

I should rate all the vehicle options and then we can take the inverse of my ratings and see how closely it lines up with her preferences. I think it will be pretty close.

[kevm14]

Here are the requirements/desirements in no particular order:
- <= ~$4k. The budget is debatable but I will ensure that a good example of whatever model is settled on is purchased. This is a bit against my normal intuition of buying the worst example of any given thing for the lease amount of money, but I'm sure I'll figure it out.

I fall somewhere in the middle. I want an above average example for below average pricing. As opposed to the complete bottom of the market (though my CTS-V was bottom of market, only because of mileage, not condition).

- No TPMS (so older than '07)

I thought 08 was the mandate. So 07 and older. Small difference.

- Good fuel economy

Define. By some metrics, you aren't going to get "interesting," "powerful" and "larger" with "good fuel economy" at the same time - especially not for <$4k. Depending on your definition. On the other hand, a car like the 4th gen Maxima could check a lot of those boxes for me, though not sure if mileage falls into "good for 2017." I'd say it's more "good for 2005." Which may be fine. Just using that car's power/weight, fun to drive, niceness and spaciousness as a data point.

- Cloth seats
- Limited feature fanciness

That puts it more into F-body category. Except fuel economy. And the interior is not bigger than a Civic. But you check some boxes. You know what...you should keep an Excel matrix and actually rate and weight characteristics. Rather than trying to balance them mentally or just doing a quick mental assessment. I understand the final number may not actually be the winner but it should lead in the right direction.

Importantly, she could screw around with the weights of all criteria, including "aesthetics" and technically end up with a winner that balances everything the best. In other words, we could find a car that technically meets all requirements the best - but she says "I don't like those, they are ugly." Well, then her rating would be a 1 in "do I want to look at it" and, critically, the WEIGHT of that rating would be pretty high. Or even just make a cut off - anything below a "5" in aesthetics is just disqualified, regardless of how well it does everything else. Whatever the actual preference is - I think it can be documented. As long as the preferences are consistent. Which they are not (sigh). If I am optimistic for a second, it may be that the inconsistent preferences can actually be captured in an algorithm if enough characteristics are addressed.

[Bob]

2007 Kia Rondo. It has TPMS, but it works properly so there's that.

[kevm14]

I'm going on record that TPMS is not a problem at all.

I have had no issues other than old batteries or normal mechanical issues like valve core leaks, and I am referring to my 7 years with the CTS-V, ~3 years with the SRX and 6 months with the STS. Only one of those vehicles is even new enough for TPMS to be required but they all have it.

Batteries should last 5-10 years. Sensors range from $30-$60. It's really not an issue. That said, if the car is one of those really lame ones that doesn't tell you ANYTHING about current tire pressure (other than "low") then I wouldn't want to carry around the complexity. But if it is like my Cadillacs, and it tells you exact pressure of each tire, I actually really like that as a function that is useful. But that's me.

Not all manufacturers may be equal. GM was doing TPMS as early as the late 80s in the Corvette (totally different system though).

[Adam]

2007 Kia Rondo. It has TPMS, but it works properly so there's that.

Best response ever