M/T: 740E vs LS500 vs G90 vs Continental

Non-repair car talk
kevm14
Posts: 16018
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

M/T: 740E vs LS500 vs G90 vs Continental

Post by kevm14 »

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/genesis/ ... D81B32F113

Booo.
As for the “other” big American luxury car, the Cadillac CT6, well, it’s unimpressive, finishing third to the Mercedes E-Class and Volvo S90 in its last comparison. With no major changes to the CT6 since then, we thought we’d give the Continental, a proper flagship for the Lincoln lineup, its shot at glory. Our loaded Continental Black Label tester stickered for $79,780. If it’s more expensive than the Genesis, it must be pretty good, right?
Some other weird quotes:
Driven back to back with the BMW, Genesis, and Lincoln, the Lexus feels an order of magnitude sportier than the rest of the pack.
Continental did 14.0s @ 100.4 mph. That is quite sedate for a vehicle this expensive.
Out on the road, the Continental could benefit from a bit of finishing school. There’s too much unnecessary drama and not enough finesse for what purports to be a luxury sedan. “For a brand that has officially eschewed sportiness, it’s trying very hard to be sporty,” Evans said. “The throttle tip-in is aggressive, and the engine is loud. It’s difficult to leave a stop without being thrown back into the seat. It’s a powerful engine, but it feels like it hasn’t fully been tamed for the job.”

Unfortunately, the ride and handling balance also seem tilted a bit too far toward the ragged end of the spectrum, with a brittle, almost harsh ride quality, especially over larger impacts. The unexpected sportiness does have one positive trade-off, though, as all four of us found the Conti surprisingly fun in tight switchback corners.

There is a cure to the Continental’s harshness, though: Comfort mode. Buried under five layers of menus on the Continental’s instrument cluster, defeating the default sportier mode helps smooth out the Lincoln with an ever so slightly softer setting of the Lincoln’s electronic dampers, smoother throttle input, and lighter steering. Yes, this is an automotive journalist asking an automaker to not make Sport the default drive mode. Comfort vastly improves the Continental’s driving experience. We can’t help wonder how many potential buyers might opt for the Continental without such a harsh first impression if the car came equipped from the factory in this softer setting.
The Lincoln makes a great first impression, but like its drive experience, it’s a bit inconsistent.
The sedan furthest from encapsulating all we expect from a flagship luxury sedan is the Lincoln Continental. There’s a lot to like about the Lincoln, from its art deco interior trim to its spacious cabin and tidy footprint. But its lack of polish unfortunately holds it back. “I really wanted the Continental to knock it out of the park,” Evans said. “Instead, it’s a base hit.”
Ultimately similar words issued to the CT6. Except at least the CT6 is a RWD-based car so I am sure I'd still vastly prefer it to the Continental.
kevm14
Posts: 16018
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: M/T: 740E vs LS500 vs G90 vs Continental

Post by kevm14 »

CT6 is a significantly more athletic car despite the Continental's attempt.

13.4 sec @ 105.0 mph for starters. That's more or less my CTS-V. Maybe a touch off the trap.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/cadillac ... st-review/

Also way better braking, way better grip, way better figure 8. It's definitely the one I'd want, at least between the two.
Bob
Posts: 2470
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:36 am

Re: M/T: 740E vs LS500 vs G90 vs Continental

Post by Bob »

You should be happy the CT6 is unloved. It means you'll be able to get one for pennies on the dollar as a 10 year old used car in 2026.
kevm14
Posts: 16018
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: M/T: 740E vs LS500 vs G90 vs Continental

Post by kevm14 »

I'm just worried they will change their formula away from my preferences if they continue having these sales problems.
Bob
Posts: 2470
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:36 am

Re: M/T: 740E vs LS500 vs G90 vs Continental

Post by Bob »

I would say that's entirely possible. At the end of the day, decisions get made based on results and the sales numbers for the ATS, CTS and CT6 are probably way below expectations.
kevm14
Posts: 16018
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: M/T: 740E vs LS500 vs G90 vs Continental

Post by kevm14 »

So I literally am hoping for sales numbers that are high enough to keep doing what they are doing (improving is fine, but deviating completely, except perhaps for one model, is not fine), but not high enough that resale doesn't take a dump. Then again, sales and resale aren't necessarily tied. In fact, one could make a legitimate argument that the more available the supply is (used market) the lower the price. With the cars I like, it seems to be the opposite which is strange.
Bob
Posts: 2470
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:36 am

Re: M/T: 740E vs LS500 vs G90 vs Continental

Post by Bob »

I believe there's almost no correlation between sales volume and resale value.
kevm14
Posts: 16018
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: M/T: 740E vs LS500 vs G90 vs Continental

Post by kevm14 »

So...all things equal, if they suddenly were making 10k V-sports a year...what would that do to used values? Up? Down? Same? I think they would go down. On the other hand, simple lack of awareness may be a problem for the V-sport. In which case more sales would extend to more used car awareness which could increase resale.
Bob
Posts: 2470
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:36 am

Re: M/T: 740E vs LS500 vs G90 vs Continental

Post by Bob »

I would argue that to be able to sell 10k V-sports a year, there would have to be better awareness of the car and possibly an MSRP that was closer to the typical transaction price. This could potentially generate more buzz around the car which could have a stabilizing effect. I feel like one of those "on the other hand..." economists trying to predict this.
bill25
Posts: 2583
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:20 pm

Re: M/T: 740E vs LS500 vs G90 vs Continental

Post by bill25 »

Just a couple comments. No facts, just opinions.

I think the Continental looks really nice. I also think it is a work in progress. They made a concept that people went nuts over (I like it), and rushed it to production. Hopefully they let it evolve to be softer around the edges as far as driving goes vice ax it and start over again. It is a great solid start. I like this styling way better than their whale or ray or whatever sea creature them were emulating before, and this looks great on the new Expedition pics. I am also ok with them not focusing on performance and making a nice luxury car, it just needs to drive nice. It looks great outside and the interior is also nice. Maybe they are going to make a RWD Town Car again based on the popularity of the throwback Continental styling. That would be cool too.


Cadillac is doing something wrong. I am not sure what, but they are. Their sales numbers are a joke. I get having the used cars cheap because nobody wants them is cool, but if the company can't sell enough to justify it's existence, it will not sustain itself. Their performance variants are top notch. Period. But that is not enough. They need some volume sales of something. Sure the Escalade does well, but I think everyone remembers what happens when gas prices go up, and the economy tanks.

I like Cadillac, but I don't know what their focus should be. Unfortunately performance is not enough - based on sales numbers. Options seem to be: performance, tech, styling, luxury stuff(might overlap tech), autonomy... and maybe advanced technology something, either new material, drivetrain tech, energy source???

Seems like Toyota is doing the Hybrid thing, other exotics and some lesser are doing carbon fiber. Tesla and others are looking at autonomy.

Quiet usually is synonymous with luxury. I am not ready to fully embrace the electric car yet, but, what about Hydrogen fuel cell w/electric motors? Or you "fuel" with methanol? Something "next step" not just following or very mildly evolving.

and possibly an MSRP that was closer to the typical transaction price.
I really don't like this. Actual prices should be transparent.
Post Reply