Deboss Garage: Why I am not a Ford fan

[kevm14]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Avl4w_orws

Most of this is due to Ford's crap engines on their trucks in the 2000s, mostly the 5.4L Triton and the 6.0L Powerstroke. He makes some good points here.

[kevm14]

The truth. Ive argued with so many ford guys about this point. They always say well its the best selling truck. Yeah because once a ford hits a certain age its not worth fixing anymore and you idiots run out and buy a new one. I see way more gm's with 250k or more on them still going then i do fords. Usually the ford is on its 2nd engine & 2nd or 3rd transmission.

[kevm14]

A little ranty but some good points in here, too.

and by lost do you mean specifications about the truck? Because that’s a brainless argument when talking about real world situations. Tundra has the least horsepower and probably gets the worst fuel mileage, but they stay on the road longer. Why do you think ford and Chevy sell so many trucks? There are a lot more people who buy a new vehicle every 4-5 years than we all think. Then they sell them and buy a new one. The marketing gimmick is strong with the big 3...ever wonder why they advertise the shit out of payload numbers, towing ratings, horsepower, etc... “oh the new Chevy duramax has 5 more horsepower than the powerstroke. Next year ford tops the Chevy mark by 5 more horsepower...and the hordes of people trade their trucks in just for the sole purpose of having the most power, even though 99.99% of people can’t tell the difference.” It’s marketing that fools people into believing one product is superior to another. Is that 3.5 ecoboost gonna make 200,000 miles with zero hiccups? We’ll see. I know my Silverado burnt a little oil, but I put 227,000 miles on it and it never let me sitting anywhere. How many new engines has ford come out with? 5.4 triton, countless v6 variants, turboed and naturally aspirated. Diesel engines? Holy fuck. I’d take a Chevy or Toyota powertrain over anything else if I needed a vehicle to be Uber reliable. 60 + years of the same engine design...must be doing something right in chevyland. Same goes for Toyota...the smaller v8 is just as good as the Chevy, and the big v8 is also a great motor.

[kevm14]

This bothers me, too.

I personally just can't get over Toyota having MULTIPLE frame recalls across different models and years that require complete replacement. I'm just not ever going to buy a Toyota truck due to that alone. Our 1974 GMC has rotted out its body almost as fast as its needed oil changes, but the frame is original and strong to this day. If Toyota can't figure out what America did right a half century ago, I'm not giving them more time to get around to it.

[kevm14]

Watch that "what kind of engineer" talk... We don't get to make those calls. The interior is styled by a guy with a really great set of crayons that doesn't know jack shit about how to BUILD an interior and then we have to figure how to make his cartoons into a working vehicle. Styling is ALWAYS king and any and all engineering will be compromised just to get the style the guy with the crayons sold the CEO on. The same thing happens with "cost reduction" that just cheapens the vehicle up. The engineer doesn't make that call, the accountants do.

If automotive engineers had our way you would pass your vehicle down through the generations of your family for decades on end. It would also get 6mpg, weigh 20,000lbs, cost 2 million dollars, and lack pesky things the VEHICLE doesn't need, like heat, A/C, power steering, cup holders, etc, etc...

Anyhow, believe it or not, there is not a conspiracy of automotive designers making intentionally inferior parts that are designed to get the vehicle back to the service center. Most of the decisions that result in poor performance and big recalls are generally made in board rooms far removed from the guys tasked with doing the job. It's the quality of the board room guys that dictates the quality of the end product and Ford HAS been run by idiots for about 20 years now.

[kevm14]

7.3, 6.0 & 6.4 guys are THE WORST. Reality has escaped them. “My 6.0 is so awesome and reliable...after I dumped $10,000 into it..”. Same with the 6.4. No matter what mods, single turbo conversion...yadda yadda yadda...they’re junk. It’s unreal how brand bias and people love of shitty engines can make them say and do stupid things. I call it as I see it. For the majority of cases, navistar engines across their entire product line, is complete garbage. DT 466 and the 7.3 are the only thing navistar International has ever made that’s been reliable and good. Ask any truck driver how incredibly shitty the MAXXFORCE engines are...ask me how I know.

yes, that’s my point. I never understood why guys just cling to their engine of choice just because their dad or grandpa drove a ford or Chevy, and they say they’re the best. I don’t have a dog in the fight. I’ve had ford and Chevy. Both have given me problems, but if it came down to it, I’m taking the 5.3L Chevy small block. Guys, there is a reason engines like the SBC, CAT 3406e, almost all cummins engines, 318 detroit, and the aforementioned DT466. Reliability is a beautiful thing. We bought a freightliner Columbia w/ a 6NZ Cat in it. It had a blown head gasket and needed a full out of frame overhaul, and we bought the truck anyway because those CAT engines are stupid reliable, when built properly.

[kevm14]

What do you think about a ford ranger? Any year

The Ranger was built to fetch parts for the bigger Fords.

Haha

[kevm14]

Something like that...

Yeah Ford sucks, they’ve been setting there saying, f series number one selling truck for 40 straight years. Well the reasoning behind this, is they look at commercial sales, and not general public sales. Ford used to have the lowest MSRP, so all these little construction companies, EMS, and Police, bought a bunch of Fords for a fleet vehicles, they’d run them for 90,000 miles, toss them and get more. So when Ford says they’re the number 1 selling truck for 40 years, they’re telling you they’re the number 1 thrown away truck for 40 years. But they use marketing tricks, to make you think they’re number one selling for quality. Going by general public sales, Ford is actually one of the least sold trucks, because people will run it way past 90,000 miles, and Ford typically becomes more problematic after 90,000 miles than other brands. Last I checked GM was holding number one position for sales to general public, Chrysler number 2, mainly the Cummins engine helped them out for that, Toyota number 3, then Ford at number 4. This is pick up truck sales to general public counts, not commercial sales. This list is actually more important than commercial sales, because the general public will more likely run their trucks past 90,000 miles, so it shows which brands are currently lasting the longest, and retain the best brand loyalty.

I actually think he is right on with this.

[kevm14]

Finally, a Brit who speaks the truth about VW!

We got the same thing in UK with cars, everyone is die hard VAG VW nuts. But in general they are utter garbage. Bad electrical, bad engines, butter gearboxes. All overpriced too hell. But they have nice interiors and buttons. Haha. I'll take a ford focus/Opel astra/ or even a kia C'eed which IMO are all far better cars mechanically and handling wise than a VW golf. But the interiors ain't great. Brand loyalty, Apples, snap-on, Audi. All pretty meh for the £$£ that you pay.

[kevm14]

Ford tech on Ecoboost intake carboning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0irwbwpuEbQ

Short version: intake valve carbons up but Ford does not recommend doing an intake cleaning. Why? Because engineering has determined, via testing, that the turbo gets ruined. So they recommend replacing the entire cylinder head. This does not bode well for out of warranty ownership.

Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK2eXdaydqI

Ecoboost 2.0 Explorer cold misfire.

Boroscope down the intake...

Intake valve carbon on #2 and #3. Why? PCV oil goes there. Sigh. So now folks are doing catch cans.

This was at 20k. At the time Ford was telling him to replace the head. That is terrible. He thinks they'll come out with some kind of updated intake or perhaps an approved cleaning method. The reason this is a huge problem on direct injection is because unlike port injection, there is no stream of gas washing the back of the intake valves every intake stroke. It just goes directly into the cylinder. So all the intake valves see is fresh air and PCV oil mist.