I was going to reply to the ATS post in the Cars section, but this comment is much broader than just the ATS Coupe.
What is Cadillac doing? Does anybody know?
Some public decisions so far:
Move to New York, cost more, add turbos to everything (normally that would be ok, but I am not excited about a 2 L 4 Turbo. Is this a Subaru?), change the naming scheme, again, to something stupider, charge 50K for a car because it is a 2 door (thanks BMW for that stupid idea), and make their own engines again.
It's really sad because Cadillac is arguably making the best cars ever, and their marketing and branding couldn't be any worse. If you make a great car for a reasonable price, people will buy it. Cadillac is making great cars and has been for a few years now, maybe almost 10 actually. Cadillac just needs to press on and be patient because it takes time to overcome the bullshit that they put out in the 80s and even the 90s really.
But people know what the CTS and CTS-V are. The V is a great brand that people recognize. Who the hell wants a C6 or CT6? That sounds like the last gen vette, not a Caddy.
Moving to New York I can understand. Smash that logo in everyone's face in NY, they have the money to buy them. They are a great target audience except for a lot of New Yorkers don't drive, but I can understand having the upscale model's office in NY City. I don't understand removing the crest from the logo, I still think the crest meant luxury.
I don't see how over pricing cars is going to cause more sales. This concept is retarded. Demand will drive prices up as people start to appreciate the quality, overpricing the cars before that will kill any possibility of people buying them to even see how much better they are now.
I will not go into the turbo thing because I get that the CAFE restrictions are making all of the major companies offer diesel or turbo solutions. I just don't see paying 50K for a turbo 4 drive train. I understand it is a great platform, and the leather seats are nice, but really, what is this going to have to offer over any other alpha platform?
I also think that having their own engine designs is a terrible idea. Having all of GM's brands make their own engines already was proven inefficient, and since they have consolidated this task, all GM brands have benefitted.
GM, learn from your mistakes, and don't screw up what you are doing right!!!
Cadillac
Re: Cadillac
I think they do have a marketing problem. The product is good. So it will take more years of people beginning to recognize that, part of which is a job for marketing.
Also high prices in the luxury segment have some interesting characteristics. First, there's the age old observation that increased price tends to lead to greater perceived value. Second, part of the key to certain segments of the market is high lease rates. Part of the reason people lease certain luxury vehicles is to be giving the perception of status, particularly of that vehicle is known to be "expensive." No one wants to lease a bargain basement luxury car. You lease because you otherwise can't afford to drive that vehicle.
Also high prices in the luxury segment have some interesting characteristics. First, there's the age old observation that increased price tends to lead to greater perceived value. Second, part of the key to certain segments of the market is high lease rates. Part of the reason people lease certain luxury vehicles is to be giving the perception of status, particularly of that vehicle is known to be "expensive." No one wants to lease a bargain basement luxury car. You lease because you otherwise can't afford to drive that vehicle.
Re: Cadillac
I have heard of the marketing strategy : "price it high and it will attract sales because stupid people will buy it because it is expensive so other people will think they are awesome." But if the perception is that it is less quality than the Germans, rich people, and everyone else will just think you are an idiot for wasting your money on something inferior.
This marketing concept worked with a hard liquor company. I forgot which one, but it did work.
I think that it is a gamble though, and an unnecessary one. They are gambling on the idea that the high price will attract customers as opposed to drive them away.
I am saying why gamble when you have a product that if marketed correctly (show that when it competes, it WINS), is more than good enough for people to start buying over its competition? You shouldn't need to gamble with a good product, you definitely shouldn't have to gamble with a better product, which it is.
So why turn off people that may have bought it based on it being a little cheaper, since the perception right now is that it needs a price edge to compete, and over deliver for a little while? That word of mouth is the best marketing. Then when you get people to see how superior it is, and you are getting demand, then bring up prices to reflect the demand.
This marketing concept worked with a hard liquor company. I forgot which one, but it did work.
I think that it is a gamble though, and an unnecessary one. They are gambling on the idea that the high price will attract customers as opposed to drive them away.
I am saying why gamble when you have a product that if marketed correctly (show that when it competes, it WINS), is more than good enough for people to start buying over its competition? You shouldn't need to gamble with a good product, you definitely shouldn't have to gamble with a better product, which it is.
So why turn off people that may have bought it based on it being a little cheaper, since the perception right now is that it needs a price edge to compete, and over deliver for a little while? That word of mouth is the best marketing. Then when you get people to see how superior it is, and you are getting demand, then bring up prices to reflect the demand.
Re: Cadillac
I don't think high prices and high quality are somehow diametrically opposed. I think if you asked Cadillac what their mission statement is, it would include something like high quality product that is recognized and priced accordingly. It's not that the product isn't good so "let's try high prices and see if that works." It's a holistic strategy.
Re: Cadillac
Saw this in the Jalopnik CTS-V thread:
I guess he nailed it.Admittedly, Lincoln makes nothing like this. But in terms of sales, Lincoln is the one taking the money, seeing as how the MKZ currently outsells both the ATS and CTS. Lincoln is trying to focus on increasing sales with vehicles that appeal to a wider range of customers. Their success at this is perhaps debatable as they are still in the midst of their turnaround, but you can't debate that CTS and ATS sales are in the toilet and GM has yet to figure out a solution. Lincoln can continue gradually improving their offerings and continue to increase sales. Cadillac, however, may need to rethink their approach if they want to remain a viable luxury brand. Crazy to say, but when you think about it, it actually makes sense. The luxury car market is harder to crack than the full size truck market. Most people who buy them are buying Mercedes, BMW and Audi. The Germans have that market locked up very tight with insane brand loyalty. Cadillac has been gunning for the Germans (with some really good guns) but the reality is that conquest sales among that customer base are rare. Lincoln has been letting the Germans do their thing and focusing instead on the customers who don't really care about badge and are more concerned about comfort, style and value. They are having success there while Cadillac continues to market to customers who don't want a Cadillac.
Re: Cadillac
I think this goes back to what I said earlier.
Cadillac is going after BMW instead of leading at what it used to do best - Luxury.
If you look at Lincoln, they are doing exactly what I said. They are big, comfortable and Luxurious. Notice I said nothing about performance. They know that their rich clientele that care about luxury don't care about zero to 60. They want comfort. Sports cars are not comfortable, they are harsh and bumpy.
Back to why Cadillac is off from their roots: There is nothing comfortable about riding in a 3 series BMW. They are rough as far as suspension, and I didn't even fit in the front seat. It did seem like it would be fun to drive, but that is me, not someone looking to drive people to the golf course in a luxury car.
I have no problem with Cadillac going after BMW, but to me that isn't what most luxury people want, it is really what rich enthusiasts want. There is a big difference, AND, there are a lot less of those people.
I know most people here are enthusiasts so obviously Cadillac should be performance orientated, but I disagree. In my mind, Cadillac should appeal to very rich, older people because most people with that kind of money are older. Cadillac is never going to sell a CTS-V to a 25 year old. They don't have the money.
Rich older people want room to bring passengers and golf bags, they want fine leather, they want humidors, wine cellers, etc. Cadillac is giving them a car that has windshield wipers that work at 150 MPH. What the hell is a 75 year old doing driving 150 in the rain for???
To summarize, I like what Cadillac is doing, but I can't afford it, and if I could, I would buy the top Camaro.
My friend's father has money. He has a Corvette and a Cadillac. The Cadillac isn't the V series, he drives the Corvette for that.
Cadillac is going after BMW instead of leading at what it used to do best - Luxury.
If you look at Lincoln, they are doing exactly what I said. They are big, comfortable and Luxurious. Notice I said nothing about performance. They know that their rich clientele that care about luxury don't care about zero to 60. They want comfort. Sports cars are not comfortable, they are harsh and bumpy.
Back to why Cadillac is off from their roots: There is nothing comfortable about riding in a 3 series BMW. They are rough as far as suspension, and I didn't even fit in the front seat. It did seem like it would be fun to drive, but that is me, not someone looking to drive people to the golf course in a luxury car.
I have no problem with Cadillac going after BMW, but to me that isn't what most luxury people want, it is really what rich enthusiasts want. There is a big difference, AND, there are a lot less of those people.
I know most people here are enthusiasts so obviously Cadillac should be performance orientated, but I disagree. In my mind, Cadillac should appeal to very rich, older people because most people with that kind of money are older. Cadillac is never going to sell a CTS-V to a 25 year old. They don't have the money.
Rich older people want room to bring passengers and golf bags, they want fine leather, they want humidors, wine cellers, etc. Cadillac is giving them a car that has windshield wipers that work at 150 MPH. What the hell is a 75 year old doing driving 150 in the rain for???
To summarize, I like what Cadillac is doing, but I can't afford it, and if I could, I would buy the top Camaro.
My friend's father has money. He has a Corvette and a Cadillac. The Cadillac isn't the V series, he drives the Corvette for that.
Re: Cadillac
Nothing wrong with a Corvette but I think it's cooler to achieve performance, comfort and luxury in the same car. I don't really care as much about the luxury part (which is why I love the Chevy SS) but it's not like upgrading to a Cadillac adds just luxury...
Re: Cadillac
The problem is that they aren't doing any of those the best.
A Bentley is more luxurious, a Corvette is faster, and many cars are more comfortable.
Cadillac should be the best. The CTS-V is not comfortable, and the CTS is not fast. None of the cars are all 3 at the same time.
Out of all, Cadillac does fast the best, which is the argument. That shouldn't be it's priority based on the sales evidence.
Think about it. What is Cadillac doing for comfort or luxury that is outside the box?
GM did some good things with the down size, and some things that they are currently stuck with. Getting rid of Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Saturn, Hummer, and all their foreign companies they collected and leaving only Chevy, GMC, Buick and Cadillac is leaving some questions about roles.
GMC is totally unnecessary since the vehicles are all rebadged Chevy's. Sorry, it is true. If GMC is better, just make the Chevy with those parts to begin with and call it a day, or an upgrade package.
GMC was kept because they sell high profit vehicles.
Buick was kept because it is in demand in China. Ok, but what brand are they - old fart, quasi businessman?
Chevy is passenger car and truck, and performance.
Cadillac is ... Luxury, Comfort, Performance?
All I am saying is that it is too bad they are obsessed at being German.
Lets be honest, the base CTS and ATS are not luxury enough. Period. Cadillac has great performance cars, and mediocre luxury at best.
A Bentley is more luxurious, a Corvette is faster, and many cars are more comfortable.
Cadillac should be the best. The CTS-V is not comfortable, and the CTS is not fast. None of the cars are all 3 at the same time.
Out of all, Cadillac does fast the best, which is the argument. That shouldn't be it's priority based on the sales evidence.
Think about it. What is Cadillac doing for comfort or luxury that is outside the box?
GM did some good things with the down size, and some things that they are currently stuck with. Getting rid of Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Saturn, Hummer, and all their foreign companies they collected and leaving only Chevy, GMC, Buick and Cadillac is leaving some questions about roles.
GMC is totally unnecessary since the vehicles are all rebadged Chevy's. Sorry, it is true. If GMC is better, just make the Chevy with those parts to begin with and call it a day, or an upgrade package.
GMC was kept because they sell high profit vehicles.
Buick was kept because it is in demand in China. Ok, but what brand are they - old fart, quasi businessman?
Chevy is passenger car and truck, and performance.
Cadillac is ... Luxury, Comfort, Performance?
All I am saying is that it is too bad they are obsessed at being German.
Lets be honest, the base CTS and ATS are not luxury enough. Period. Cadillac has great performance cars, and mediocre luxury at best.
Re: Cadillac
Some ideas for Cadillac to "wow" the Luxury:
Come with an umbrella built in to the door jam - This is done already in other luxury brands.
Options:
Humidor,
Wine cooler/cabinet in the back (This is acceptable in some states)
Driving Shoes (Probably some memory foam slippers) so you don't ruin your dress shoes.
All with the Cadillac logo.
How about Cadillac Luggage that is custom fit to for the trunk?
Maybe Cadillac cars could come with high end perks like a special Cadillac Credit Card that has exclusive benefits.
Then they could still have the performance version of the car but they would lead with the luxury side.
Come with an umbrella built in to the door jam - This is done already in other luxury brands.
Options:
Humidor,
Wine cooler/cabinet in the back (This is acceptable in some states)
Driving Shoes (Probably some memory foam slippers) so you don't ruin your dress shoes.
All with the Cadillac logo.
How about Cadillac Luggage that is custom fit to for the trunk?
Maybe Cadillac cars could come with high end perks like a special Cadillac Credit Card that has exclusive benefits.
Then they could still have the performance version of the car but they would lead with the luxury side.
Re: Cadillac
The CTS-V IS comfortable though. It literally can't ride any better without sacrificing some handling. If you want balls to the wall speed and handling that's been sacrificed for some ride quality, you can look at the Hellcat products. But I'm willing to bet the Gen III MR shocks make the CTS-V3 ride as well as the Hellcat stuff does. And you pay for that, of course. Premium product, premium price. Isn't that the point?billgiacheri wrote:Cadillac should be the best. The CTS-V is not comfortable, and the CTS is not fast.