M/T: BMW M4 vs 2016 Camaro

[kevm14]

By the way, the Camaro SS in this test was riding on somewhat-lame tires, too: Goodyear Eagle runflats, compared to the Michelin PSS on the M4.

Also, the last 1LE Camaro was still faster around Streets of Willow than either of these cars.

[kevm14]

But I am leery of American cars because of poor experience with one in the past and the dramatic depreciation of their cars.

I cannot comprehend this argument. This is on a BMW forum.

[Adam]

But I am leery of American cars because of poor experience with one in the past and the dramatic depreciation of their cars.

I cannot comprehend this argument. This is on a BMW forum.

Have you asked them about the 750iL's resale value?

[bill25]

Downsized turbo engines do well on standardized tests even if they don’t deliver fuel savings in the real world

I love this quote. Like I have said. Car companies are using turbos to fake good gas mileage.

[bill25]

It sounds like a Cuisinart choking on concrete. Scott Evans described its cold idle as ‘one of those small, portable air compressors you plug into the lighter socket.

77k for that??? I will stick with the better Camaro that also doesn't have fake exhaust on the radio that sounds like an air compressor. It must suck to spend all of that money to get beat by a shitty Camaro. LOL Wait until the aftermarket kicks in and the Camaros are even faster on one of the best platforms out there. I bet an aftermarket turbo on the 1LE would be very competitive with much more expensive cars.

GM can't make that car because it would probably compete with the Z06, but we can!

[bill25]

“I was genuinely concerned that the M4 would wipe the streets with the Camaro, and yet the exact opposite happened,” Cammisa said. “The Camaro’s win was wholesale.”

What else do you even need to hear. And like Kevin said, this isn't even the 1LE. Unfortunately, the 1LE requires the magna ride shocks that they don't like. I would also prefer to not have magna-ride for this car. I get it for the ATS/CTS, but it shouldn't be mandatory on a track Camaro.

[bill25]

Yup. If how a car drives matters more to you than badge cachet, Chevrolet has you covered.

Looks like I am all set.

[kevm14]

Found this on a GM Inside News thread:

I don't totally agree with you about Cadillac, sure the CTS and ATS were benchmarked against BMW. However, that is also what the customers claimed they wanted, so I don't fault them for that. However, with the next generation Caddys coming online such as the CT6 and XT5 Cadillac is starting to forge their own path. The same will apply for the next gen CTS, ATS and future products.

There will be comparisons of course because of segment competition and that's what we as humans do. However, Cadillac is now out to define their own luxury standards, American luxury if you will. Once the Cadillac line-up fills out consumers are going to have a hard choice before them. IMO in the segments Cadillac currently competes in, if one objectively compares products Cadillac wins hands down.

It's funny, when Cadillac was making the large land yachts many were claiming no one wanted the soft ride and passenger comfort, it was all about a sporty driving experience. Once Cadillac became the leader in the sporty driving experience, now those same people are now saying it's about the soft ride and passenger comfort.. Well once the next gen of Cadillacs come out they will once again be the leader of both. The CT6 and XT5 are just the first shots across the bow.

I'd say we have the China market to thank for this pivot [back] to size/comfort.

[bill25]

This is where they should be. BMW made the M3 and the 7 series. Cadillac can have both also. So raw performance would be Chevy, some luxury and ride would go to Buick, and Cadillac would have the best of both, or at least the best combination. I am good with this because I can get the performance stuff from Cadillac in a lighter cheaper Chevy.

[kevm14]

That actually makes sense. A lot of sense.

Chevy is the value brand, and would have a good amount of performance-minded models with some luxury stuff available. Driving dynamics shouldn't suffer, even on the cheap stuff. No reason that certain vehicles couldn't approach Cadillac levels of performance (at much lower prices), Corvette being its own brand. By the way, no reason for Pontiac to exist.

Buick gives you the luxury, comfort and refinement that you may not get from a Chevrolet. No reason that these couldn't approach Cadillac levels of comfort and luxury. Maybe even more raw comfort, in the old school sense. By the way, no reason for Oldsmobile to exist.

Cadillac has everything in the old, but still quite relevant, German tradition of luxury + performance + refinement. In other words, everything.

How is this not their brand model going forward? Maybe it is and I missed the memo. Frankly much of their product already fits this mold...